LOL at that last part, Em, I personally was sitting around thinking about it, but I have always been a hyper-sexual person. Truly though, I have. I got a bit of a jump-start or something, with being younger than the people around me all the time. I was ahead in school. When I was in the 8th grade, I had a church boyfriend who was a sophomore. Years later, as an adult, I realized that in the 8th grade, I was 12, and I remember that Paul had a driver's license -- so he was 16; normal sophomore age! Holy crap. And though we never so much as even kissed, to me now, the thought of a 12 year old and a 16 year old, no matter how mature the 12 year old...OMG, you know? But it never even crossed my mind. It was a very innocent 'holding hands' short-term kind of relationship, but STILL! Then when I was a freshman, my boyfriend was a junior -- I was 13/14 that year, he was 17/18. Eek. I DO remember rounding...lemme see if I can remember what to call it...I guess, like, THIRD base there (only once, cause I was NOT ready and recognized it, and he was fortunately a respectful guy in that manner when I backed him off). BUT, all that said, I was a virgin until I was almost 17 (different boyfriend by then). And I was on birth control pills -- I could tell it was coming up in the particular relationship, and that I was on the cusp of switching to 'green light', so I had been for a couple months. Point being, I was on the pill -- BEFORE I was having sex! I never would have DREAMED ignoring that aspect and doing it, even then at the 'irresponsible' age of 16! Heck, even that same guy I lost my vg to at 16, I dated again as a young adult for a few years (23-24), and there was one time where things got really heavy and we got ahead of ourselves, but stopped and kinda both went 'WHOA, can NOT do that', and headed for the condoms. And we both had our own places, both had good jobs, were in our mid-20's, had known each other for years, etc. And still didn't take the chance.

We never talked about sex in my family growing up. My sex talk was once when I was helping my mother make her bed, I was 16, and she said (I quote directly) "If you ever think about having sex, don't because you'll regret it later". End quote. She made me read 'Where did I come from' to my baby brother when I was about 9 (I realized MUCH later that she was having me read it to myself, even though I'd already read the book -- I was only embarrassed because she was making me read it out loud "to him" and she was hanging around). I got busted with birthcontrol pills when I was a senior and my mom FLIPPED. She found a letter I'd written to the early high school sweetheart when we got back together toward the end of my senior year, referring to us having had sex. She freaked. Made me give her his parents phone number. Oh. It was SO humiliating. But the funny part was, HE wasn't the first, almost, but not. Odd thing too...I appealed to my DAD, the COLONEL, about getting me my stuff back (my pills and phone number book), and started to say 'you probably don't want to hear about this right now'; he actually stopped me and said it didn't concern him too much. I guess he was glad I had the pills...*shrug* All I know is that is shocked the hell out of me that he was so calm.

I'm realizing how much happened just before, during, and right after my senior year... Oh my...

I agree Em, about how non-chalant society has become a/b teenagers and pregnancy, and even young ladies in their early 20's. No one seems to bat an eyelash much at seeing a young woman, pregnant, without a wedding ring. I personally don't have an issue with single motherhood once you are a little older and financially responsible, etc. It's been an interesting experience watching my step daughter, who got pg at 18, and how no one really flinched. I remember thinking years ago, when most of my unmarried friends had a child or two, in my 20's, how when I was in highschool it made me an oddball to have parents that were still married; I realized that by the time that generation of little kids grew up, it was going to be strange to have parents that were EVER married! It was a really profound thought.

I know I'm rambling now, and this is barely relevant to the topic, I'm just remembering my own teenage years. I had a very important boyfriend when I was 17, started just before graduation, and it was one of those love at first sight things. And even now, at 31, I still believe it was. I can remember seeing him walk across the yard (it was a set-up, his friend and my friend arranged for us to meet), and it being magical. Still stands out as the only storybook love-at-first-sight experience of my life, even now as a married adult, and having been 'over him' for years and years. He was a year older, went to school nearby, my parents loved him, we were going to get married, he was going to (and did) join the army; we were REALLY serious REALLY fast, and not just in a sexual way. In that case only, we jointly decided that we weren't going to use birth control; sounds stupid, but it didn't seem right, with all our plans for the future, that pretty much involved getting me out of highschool, him into the army, and starting life together (including wanting a family as soon as possible). We decided that we could handle whatever happened, and we were planning to get married anyway, so...okay. Didn't get pg, by the way. Obviously. Oh, or married. LOL! Obviously. But I remember us making the decision together, verbally, conciously, having mature realistic discussions about it, not to TRY, but not to avoid it. We were both out of high school by then. Hmmm...interesting what takes you back...

Where you are and what kind of environment obviously makes a difference. I went to a middle class large public high school. I remember one girl pregnant during the year when I was a freshman, and being STUNNED, she was a senior. Then, when I was a junior, I think there was one in my grade level that I did know. Then, right before graduation, there was a girl who actually got married, and then pg, in that order. My friend was the only other one I knew at the time, and she was a senior, and had moved to a different high school by then, so I barely saw her. My friend Gail's sister in law was permitted to get married at 16, while they were both still in high school, and she WASN'T pg, but got that way soon after. She was like, 7 months along in their PROM picture. Precious, eh? And this was only about...7-8 years ago. No one has EVER figured that one out. And also Gail's cousin had just made HEAD CHEERLEADER for her senior year (HUGE big deal in Texas, and football, huge big deal), same high school Gail and I went to, and dropped out of school and got a GED because she got pg the summer before her senior year started. She married the guy and is still married, and this was...mmm...5 years ago? Maybe 6.

I guess the thing is, there doesn't seem to be a 'magic formula'. Obviously, demographics, and stuff like that make a difference, but there's just no perfect solution or explanation. *shrug*

I don't even remember what my senior song/saying/flower/whatever was...I'd have to look it up in MY YEARBOOK , if I can even find the dusty old thing...LOL!

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Maybe I was in some weird repressed society. I remember thinking about boys when I was sixteen, but not about the actual act of sex. More about kissing. My high school was so focused on prepping you for college (99% of my class graduated on-time, and I think 96% of my graduating class was accepted to a 4-year college) that most people actually didn't have boyfriends or girlfriends. There were a few couples, but only the "losers" or "outcasts" were ever given the reputation of being sexually active. I was actually a virgin until I was 20, and even then I was terrified and didn't really want to do it. It just wasn't on my list of desires. I wanted more for myself. I wanted a boyfriend, but sex wasn't that important.

Maybe 16 year-olds these days think about sex so much because it's CONSTANTLY IN THEIR FACES.

I'm totally not religious, but I can see the benefit of instilling the fear of God into your daughter than having sex before marriage could spell disaster for her life.

Of course, now I love sex and went through my own phase of indiscretions after my divorce, but I was a grown-up, with a job, not a teenager with no idea of what they want to do with their life.

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Amber~ LOL sling crack! you are probably right!
Bina~ I hate to ask this, but what would "juicy" refer to in "willwork for juicy"? LOL

Emily~ I think you hit the nail on the head as far as the environment you are in in highschool. Only I would take it a bit further from "cool" to "cultural." I went to a public HS and our demographics ranged from kids from the "poor" area with parents in jail to a lawyers son who drove a new BMW to school. And yes, at 16, I DID sit around and think about sex. I don't think I was "hypersexual" I think it was somewhat normal. Getting PG was definatly looked down upon, but not sex. I think it's amazing how different things can be from place to place and school to school. Here in Santa Fe, things are very different. One of our biggest controversies was that a gay couple ran for homecoming king/queen (king) and the school ruled a male couldn't run for "queen" I think he got elected anyhow, so they gave it to the female runner-up. Anyhow, my point is that things are just more open, I guess, here-for lack of a better word.

Steph~ you crack me up with your nostalgia! wow, you were pretty far ahead in school, what's that, 2 years ahead? LOL about your sex talk. I gotta tell you mine: One night after dinner, we were still sitting at the table and my mother handed my father a condom. She didn't say a word. He just nonchalatly put it on his fingers and pinched the tip. He just said "that's how a condom works, any questions?" I was a bit mortified. I think I was only a freshman at the time. And that was that. No talk of the possible relationship to love and sex or what it could do to you mentally. WOW, come to think of it, this explains A LOT in my life LOL. Freud would have a field day with this one!

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Claire ~ LMAO! OMG, that almost sounds like something my dad might have done; I can almost hear it in his gruff 'colonel' voice. Actually, IMO as an adult, that wasn't a half bad sex-talk you got at the time.

Em ~ I absolutely DO think you are right; the level of acedemia you are involved with certainly has an effect on all of this. I don't think a lot of the folks with mega-AP class loads were running around having a bunch of sex! I was in AP english/advanced classes some, as was my older sister, so I think you are correct that the academic load and expectations has an effect, and if the entire school has very high academic load and expectations, it's likely to be a lesser issue, i would think. For lack of TIME if nothing else. The mindset is more geared toward life and school and that type of responsibility not ending until after college, so certainly a difference.

Claire ~ Yes, some of my classmates were almost two years older, most about one year. I started kinder at 4, during the whole 'cut off date' fiasco of the early 80's. The counties I was in just set up testing and tested all the thousands of four year olds and sent most of them home and stuck like, 7 of us in school. On top of being a year ahead, I was also in advanced courses and extended learning programs since I was 5. So I'm kinda messed up.

And Claire/Em, I was and still am a hyper-sexual being. It's okay, I don't sugar coat it, and I'm not ashamed of it, and I do recognize that it's atypical (fortunately, DH is cut from the same cloth). It's not like an uncontrollable addiction or anything. But it has caused me some problems, like it adds to my insomnia. Out of desperation in the past, I could get a fantasy going the likes of which most people wouldn't believe the length of time and detail (borderline mentally orgasmic). It can keep me from sleeping, even though not quite awake, basically qualifying as lucid dreaming. And if I get into it, it's a difficult cycle to break. There were some experiences in my life that just brought me to sexual awareness at an earlier stage I guess, or I'm wired that way, whatever. I don't know why. It's just part of me, that's all I know.

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Juicy refers to Juicy Couture. Overpriced skankwear. Maybe it's because I'm form the "wrong" end of town but everything you guys are saying is completely alien to me.

I lost my virginity at 14 and quite honestly didn't care. At 15 I was frequently drunk, blacked out and pulled a few "Jimi Hendrix" moments. Maybe because I lived where noone gave a load it didnt seem that bad, but sheesh, the GOOD parties were at the rich kids houses across town. They say that Greenville is a nice quiet, southern, charming town but up until the past year all i've seen is the bad end of the spectrum. Noone cared about grades at my school. Who was selling the best green was more on top of the list.

I think I may be sorta warped. I just dont think I care about these things like I should. I just see it as at least I won't be the dumb parent who believes it when the kid says the track marks are just bruises. It sucks but hey, a good knowledge of drugs could be great when my kid is old enough to act stupid.

I think I should move. To like... alaska. There can't be alot going on there. Right?

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Amber-yep you're right about "juicy" lol

Em-I was similar to you growing up. As a teen, I know of nobody who was PG and I had barely kissed a boy at 16, much less had sex. I think sex is in everyone's faces all the time, and if kids are exposed to it without parents guiding them.. they are likely to follow their friends in what is "cool". We see teen girls all the time who have not just one, but 3 or 4 kids before they are 20.

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Amber ~ There's something to be said for having seen the less than picture perfect part of the world. I ended up in a group of people just after high school when I was 17 that led me off the beaten path... I stood my ground enough and was on my own by then to not get too far into 'the scene', but I sure got a hefty education over that time. It DOES educate you for the future to have that knowledge. You NEVER know what you're going to end up with later...I ended up with a mob of teenage step-kids who were into pot (etc.), and not being the little 'white bread' upper middle class step-mom who didn't have a clue helped A LOT!!! At least it helped me. LOL!

I was telling DH about some of this conversation last night. Past men, the crew of men in a female's life, the different things they mean (or don't mean). The DHs must think we're all so weird.

And by the way, all there is to DO in Alaska is drink, smoke (some folks), fish...LOL! I spent two summers there. The city t-shirt read: "Skagway, Alaska: A quaint little drinking town with a fishing problem".

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My mom thought she was slick. I smoked a joint on the front porch every night and she is clueless today.

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Amber~ I've never been to where your from. But you sound like your past is much more like the norm around here. So I won't say you are from the "wrong" part of town! LOL. When we were kids it was all about finding the booze and the pot. I didn't know anyone who had done coke or anything until after HS, but I was always told that's what the kids at the "prep"(most expensive school in town) school were into! LOL.

Oh, and Alaska is no better! DH is from Anchorage and I guess some of the best weed comes from there and everyone is high. Now, maybe a tiny villiage in the article circle.....but trust me, you don't want to go there, either! LOL

Steph....That's amazing! Ok, maybe you are hypersexual. I've never lost sleep over it like that! I'm impressed you were able to talk to DH about this. Everytime I've ever tried, DH glazes over. The only conversation I had about my past w/ men was when I told DH about a time I was almost, well basically-I don't know, it was a long time ago-but raped for lack of a better word. Maybe "forced" is a better word. DH was very understanding about that......and he has never since put his hand on the back of my head while I was in a compromising position. Ok, TMI, sorry

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I agree that you can be a great parent, with money, and end up with a kid who screws his life up. I also think that a lot of times just because someone "has money" doesn't mean they are a good parent. Lots of parents with money are so interested in making it, that they forget about raising their children.

I was given a ton of freedom in high school, but never smoked, did drugs, or drank. I was never disciplined with physical violence. I was disciplined with the knowledge that my parents, whom I loved and respected very much, would be eternally disappointed in me if I made the wrong choices. I was also raised in a family that was very involved in church, and in being part of their children's lives. We had family dinners at grandma's every weekend. We took family vacations. I went to Sunday school. I knew that people cared, and that people were paying attention.

I think it's pretty sad when we've come to a place when we can talk about teen drug abuse, promiscuity, and underage drunkenness as if it's no big deal.

Makes me wonder if it's even worth having a kid these days, if so many kids, and apparently women on this board, feel like this is the normal way to live. Totally depressing.

And you know, there's nothing wrong with being upper-middle class and expecting more from your kids and for your life. My parents busted their butts to get there, and to give me a childhood that wasn't laced with all of these supposedly "normal" things. I don't know why there always seems to be so much venom in the world for people who work hard to achieve better.

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Em-I totally understand what you mean about not wanting to disappoint your parents and that being enough to do the right thing. I could have gotten away with a bunch of stuff, but I just had no desire to really do any of it. The most I did, was drink too much at college parties. And having a kid really is scary in today's society

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True Em, I've known crappy parents with money, good parents without much, the other way around, and kids that turned out both ways, extreme, and anywhere in between. We have to believe though...

And I STILL struggle with feelings of disappointing my parents. As dumb as it sounds, it's been one of the components in my decisions over the past year. I've always felt like the hopes and dreams and eventual outcome of the family rests on my shoulders.

It is sad that society in general has become so 'de-sensitized' to it all.

Claire, yes, that's something I am very glad DH and I can be open about; we fortunately are cut from the same cloth. Still talk about things with respect to each other's feelings, but as far as that stuff goes, there's nothing we can't tell each other. I'm sorry also that you had an experience like that in your past.

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Emily~ ouch! I'm not saying these things are no big deal. I'm not saying it's "normal". What's "normal"? I'm just talking about reality. I hope my kids do better than me. I'm just being realistic in saying these things happen and most of us survive. There's a huge world out there, where socially and culturally, different things are expected/accepted/tolerated/ admonishable. I was from a middle-class family and my father came from nothing to give me what I had. He loved(s) me very much. He did his VERY BEST to teach me right from wrong.....that doesn't mean I listened. After all my partying was done, I straightened out and everything my father tried to teach me fell into place. I work hard-I own/run two buisnesses. I havn't gotten "drunk" in years, I havn't touched pot since I was 18 and I've never done any other drug(well aside from the crazy stuff they gave me post-surgery) I mean, when it comes to teens, you can't always place ALL the blame on the parents, or society, or lack of religion or laws or anything. Some are just more rebellious than others. At least that's what I believe.

I got excellent grades, took AP classes and did sports. I went on to college. When I needed it, my parents paid for a tudor. They paid for college. Didn't help me not do things I shouldn't have done.

I certainly don't have any "venom" for folks who achieve, quite the opposite. I actually don't have any "venom" for anybody. Everyone takes different roads and different paths to get where they are going. I think that if I hadn't been a teen who partied I wouldn't have appreciated a straight, mature life. That's just me. I think that is what I needed to be who I became. I'm the kind of person who needed to make mistakes for myself and be hard headed. I could have been much worse. But I'll tell you one thing: It's a good thing that my father had grown up in the post 60's drug years and did the stupid things he did when he was growing up. Beause he could recognize what I was doing. I'll never forget the night he said "are you drunk?" I lied and said "no." He knew I was, and he told me so, he also said he knew exactly what was I was out doing and informed me that anything I had ever done or thought of doing-he had already done, so there's no point in lying. It really affected me-for the better. And darn skippy I got grounded. But still, I was rebellious

Not sure why I am feeling the need to put all this out. Just saying that while there is a lot of bad stuff out there, there's a lot of harsh judgement, too

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Claire - I wasn't responding specifically to you or anything so I apologize if I said something that made you feel I was attacking you. It just makes me sad that this is the world I would be bringing a child up in. Almost makes me not want to even try anymore. What's the point right? You can be the best mom in the world and your kid ends up getting pg when they're 16 and dropping out of high shcool to do drugs and